Fix the Process Before You Add AI: Small Business Lessons with David Levine

Collin McKee

Welcome back to the Endeavors AI Podcast. I'm your host, Collin McKee, founder of Endeavors AI, where we talk about the intersection of artificial intelligence, law, business, and the new economy being built around all of it. Everybody's in a rush to bolt AI onto business right now, and my guest today says put the brakes on. David Levine is the author of the Amazon bestseller Old School Service, New School Tools. He built and ran a brick-and-mortar business in Chicago, was featured on Fox Business, NBC, and WGN, and today helps small businesses get found online through digital marketing, SEO, and good old-fashioned service. So if you're about to automate something in your business, listen to this one first. David, welcome to the show, sir.

David Levine

Collin, thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you and your guests.

Collin McKee

So, taking me back to Chicago, what was the business, and what did running it teach you about customers?

David Levine

The business was a candy business, and everybody's like, candy, it's sweet. And I used to say, yes, some days it's really sweet and some days it's a little nutty. The joke's funny, but the reality is, when my wife and I first bought the business, the first lesson I had about the business was from a customer. I'm not going to say it was the first day, but it was within the first week or two, and it really burned an image in me. She said, "I taught my kids the meaning of the word boycott," about the store, about the previous owner. And that kind of hurt. Then you realize, oh, I didn't just buy a business. I bought a reputation. Forget everything else you bought with the business, all the equipment, all the inventory. All that comes and goes. You bought a reputation, and that's something that's really hard to change. I had experience with customer experience back when we called it customer service. But I realized that was really the first thing we needed to change and do a complete overhaul of, going back to what one of my bosses said in my IT days: you need to make raving fans. That was my goal. Every customer, small order, big order, did not matter. He or she was a raving fan, and that helped build the business and eventually get us Business of the Year from the Village of Skokie.

Collin McKee

Then you end up on Fox Business, NBC, WGN. So what actually got the cameras into the store?

David Levine

Fancy artwork on the outside of the store helped, but the biggest win for any of my media exposure was something I had nothing to do with. How It's Made, the TV show. Everybody loves that show. One of my customers wrote the nicest letter to How It's Made and said they needed to contact me and feature us. I had nothing to do with it. And talk about the gift that keeps on giving. Every time my phone started pinging in the middle of the night, even on vibrate, you knew the rerun was playing somewhere, someplace, on some channel. So that was one example of how my customers got me in front of the media. At one point I hired a PR firm, and she did really good work and got me onto Fox Business, and that was a lot of fun, I'm not going to deny. Out of all my media exposure, forget the politics of Fox for a second, they sent a limo to pick me up. They had the makeup crew make sure I was all done well, fix my hair and any blemish on my face. It's not like a podcast. This was like live, but it wasn't. It was taped. They sent over ten questions and said these are the questions we're going to ask you. I practiced and prepared, and I was ready for it. And the news broadcaster asked me however many questions, and not one of them was what I had prepared for. I was stiff. I was uncomfortable. My friends had a really good time making fun of me afterwards. The reality is, you get comfortable with it, and after you've been on media, you're okay in front of the camera. You're okay telling your story wherever you are. And you learn that it's not about getting it right and saying exactly the right things. It's about getting your message out in a way that people can relate to and learn from. When I was marketing the business, it was all about making a sale. Sell, get people in the door. One time we sponsored an AIDS event, we were one of the sponsors, and the event got me onto ABC Sunday morning early news. And what sells better than candy? Having a smiling kid with you while pitching the candy. So I brought my son with me. Two hours after we were live on the morning news, we walked into a restaurant, and I was kind of used to people saying, "Oh, I saw you on the news," and somebody said to my son, "Oh, you're a celebrity. You're on the news." It built the raving fans. It got people in. Now, when I talk to people, obviously I'm not selling candy anymore. I'm selling customer experience. I'm selling getting found. But my goal when I go on a podcast like yours is, I don't want people to walk away saying the guy was trying to sell me. Obviously, if people want to buy from me, awesome, I appreciate that. But what's important is that people walk away with at least one actionable item they could put into play tomorrow or today.

Collin McKee

So let's talk more about your story. I think it's a very good point that you've got to be able to tell your story. It's a huge part of selling, or even just interaction and connecting. So after the candy store, you go into the media, and then life throws you a bit of a curveball. You've been open about your health journey. You sold the business during that recovery. What did that look like for you?

David Levine

It was COVID, then cancer, then a bone marrow transplant. While I was really, really sick, we, thank God, sold the business, because I wasn't in a position to be doing it. With the bone marrow treatment, they tell you you're going to be down for the count for a year, a year and a half. The truth is, I'm four-plus years out, and I still have my days, and it's not all easy. But at the end of the day, I'm okay. My brain works. I was able to write a book that is an Amazon bestseller. I'm able to help clients. And most importantly, I started from scratch a little over two years ago, where I said, "Okay, what could I do?" I said I'm going to do small business consulting, and nobody understood what small business consulting was. I realized you need to tell people what you do in ways they understand. So I started saying WordPress websites, digital marketing, search engine optimization, which has changed from SEO to GEO to AIO, pick your O. And now it's more than just that. It's customer experience, teaching clients how to help their customers. When I wrote my book, it was ready to publish ten months before it got published, and my editor and publisher, both one and the same, said to me, "It's not going to sell without an AI component." You feel like you've been punched in the gut, and you say a whole bunch of four-letter words that we're not going to say, so kids can listen to the podcast. Because no matter what you write about AI, it's outdated the minute the ink hits the paper. So I created a bunch of tools that go along with the book, from a smile gauge to how to respond to negative reviews, and then I went on to write a follow-up tool. But the reality is, it's not about the tool. And I think this is the most important thing I'm going to say to your listeners today. Back in my IT days, we talked about GIGO: garbage in, garbage out. Those of you listening who were in IT know exactly what I'm talking about. If you write bad code, you get bad results. You get errors. AI is the ultimate program. The concept has been around since 1957. It's not a new concept. It just has a new fancy name, and it's being pushed. What I tell people when I'm teaching classes in AI is, you really need to start with the prompt. The takeaway is: don't trust everything AI is going to tell you, because it hallucinates. And the more you tell AI, the better the answers it'll give you. The who, the what, the where, the when. That's what I talk about when I'm teaching an AI class. The value of AI is its speed, but the same way that's its value, I think it's also one of its biggest drawbacks. Every application feels it needs an AI component now. Why would I buy your software if it doesn't have an AI module? It must be garbage. And I'll push back and say a lot of companies are pushing AI that doesn't need to be there. Here's a second takeaway. Look at your process. What are you trying to do? What process are you trying to speed up? And the next question is: is the process you're trying to speed up actually working? Because if the process is broken, I promise you, throwing AI at it is not going to fix it. It's just going to speed up how broken it is. If you have a bad paper process or computer process, whatever your process is, and you just add AI to it, you're making the process worse. It's a multiplier of either good or bad.

Collin McKee

When I'm working with firms, I say it a little differently. I say, "Don't throw jet fuel on a dumpster fire." If it's already broken, it's going to be completely torn apart if you throw AI onto it. So give me a real example you have where a business tried to automate something before the process actually worked, and what happened. You don't have to name names.

David Levine

No names. Protect the people that goof. He wasn't a client; he was recommended to me. He had a CRM over here and his website over here, and he wanted them to talk to each other, so he bought Zapier. It could be Zapier, it could be Make, it doesn't matter. The mistake he made, before ever going through the process, was not checking whether the CRM for his specific industry was compatible with Zapier, Make, or whatever in-between tool. In his case, it was Zapier, because he saw the commercials, and their marketing team did an outstanding job. He signed up and was paying $32.99 a month, and he kept trying and trying to get it to talk to the CRM. Then he hired me and asked if I could get it to talk to the CRM. I tried, and after trying, I contacted the CRM's support and said, "My client, your client, is trying to automate using Zapier." And the response I got was, "A, why? And B, we don't connect, and we don't plan on connecting." I said, "Okay, so what's your solution?" And they said, "It's no big deal. We have an HTML snippet you can add to your website that will collect all the data automatically and drop it into the correct field, so there's no data mapping. Once it's in our CRM, everything he wants to do is already done." In the end, I saved him $32.99 a month because he canceled his subscription. But the frustration and aggravation could have been stopped and never started had he looked at the requirements. And this goes back to GIGO and VIVO. The GIGO was, "I need something that makes my CRM talk to my website," rather than looking at the question of how to do that. I had another client, no longer a client, who was convinced that buying a software solution would be the answer. They promised him the sun, the moon, and the stars. I told him it was a bad idea, and we parted ways. The person who referred me later told me he parted ways with that company too. I say anybody that guarantees you anything in SEO is not really telling the truth. You can't guarantee anything other than that you're going to do it. The whole concept of GIGO and VIVO is: ask the questions and build a requirements document. I'm not saying you have to build a fancy requirements document like we did back in the day, but at least know what you're trying to do. Then you can use AI and say, "I own the Acme Widget Company. I'm looking for a tool that will make sure the coyote doesn't slam into my Acme widget every time he's running down the highway chasing the Road Runner." Phrase it in a way that makes sense to you as a person. Forget about the computer program. Then you go into AI, Perplexity, Claude, Grok, I don't care which one, and say, "This is my question. I work at the Acme Widget Company, and I'm trying to solve this problem of the coyote running into my widget. Can you help me create a better prompt to search the web?" ChatGPT is called ChatGPT because you're supposed to be chatting with it. It might ask you further questions, because you're telling it you want to create a prompt, not telling it to do anything. By having this conversation, you're able to go from GIGO to VIVO, because it asks all the questions it needs answered to build a better prompt, and then you can run the prompt.

Collin McKee

I don't know if you explained the difference. We know garbage in, garbage out is GIGO.

David Levine

VIVO, I'm sorry. Value in, value out.

Collin McKee

There you go. Big difference, too.

David Levine

If you have the right prompt, you get the value out, and if you don't have the right prompt, you get the garbage out. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people using AI are getting a lot of garbage. And once you get the value, the important thing a lot of people don't realize is that you need to take the time your AI saved you and invest it into your clients and your customers, as opposed to just taking on another project or doing something else. This is something I truly believe: technology changes. When I first got into the corporate world, we were using fax machines. Okay, I'm dating myself.

Collin McKee

Let's talk about that. Your book comes with AI tools, right? What does that actually look like for a small business owner? Give them a little preface of what the tools are.

David Levine

You're able to sample each tool free before you have to commit to anything. Each chapter of the book talks about different things, and I have tools that go along with the various chapters. Like I mentioned earlier, there's a tool where you take a selfie and it grades your smile: how warm, how friendly, and how approachable you are. There's one for making yes your default, which helps you frame answers that are yeses. Then there's your first thirty seconds. Not everybody is in a retail situation, and for a lot of businesses, their first thirty seconds could be the website, so there's a website audit. There's also a tool that helps you change how you answer your phones, going back to the old school method. The only chapter I do not have an AI tool for is the listening chapter, because I don't think AI, at least not now, is able to teach us to listen better. That's something we need to practice. Maybe read a book or listen to a webinar on that. And one of the important things I talk about is how to apologize properly without saying "but." That's not just good for business; it's good for our interpersonal relationships too. I know it drives my wife crazy when I say, "I'm sorry, but." We need to practice that at home as well.

Collin McKee

Another fun acronym, sorry to interrupt: E-E-A-T. Experience, expertise, authoritativeness, and trust. Can you break that down for us? I like that one.

David Levine

Sure. Google has something called E-E-A-T: experience, expertise, authoritativeness, and trust. And here's another takeaway. How do you build experience? They look at your website to get a sense of how much experience you have. Expertise: I'm building my expertise by appearing on podcasts, and I'm also building my authority by appearing on podcasts. Then there's the trust signal. Not everybody has the time or the desire to get in front of a camera and talk, or write. You could write blogs and create content, which I do as well on LinkedIn. But trust is something we all could do. You can have a Google Business Review, and not only should you have one, but if you don't have one, this is my challenge to each one of your listeners today: create one. You can optimize it yourself, or you can pay somebody like me to optimize it. But think back to the Yellow Pages, where we all used to spend a lot of money to advertise for our small businesses. Google business reviews are the Yellow Pages of today, except right now they're free. I'm not saying they're always going to be free, but right now they're free. One of the important things I stress to my small businesses is how to build trust signals. You build trust signals by having people leave Google business reviews. That's number one. Number two, you can have people leave reviews elsewhere. Today, one of my clients left a recommendation for me on LinkedIn. That's another trust signal. You can have people leave reviews on your products if you're selling products on your website, or if you're not selling products, you can get people to leave video testimonials on Facebook or Instagram. These are all trust signals. Google used to be all about backlinks. Backlinks are still important, but not as much. What's more important than a backlink today are trust signals. Having backlinks from the appropriate places definitely helps, but having actual people leave reviews for you on Google is important. And I think this is really important: don't pay all your friends to start leaving five-star reviews. That's not truthful, it's not helpful, and it's fake. And don't ask every one of your clients to leave a review on the same day, because that sets up red flags too. I'm working with one client right now, and I asked him to send out three emails a week to past clients, with a QR code and a link, asking them to go to his Google Business Profile and leave a review. I helped him write the message. He got back to me and said, "They all left reviews. They all did it on the same day." I said, "Well, they must really love you." And he said, "I'm ready to send out more." And I said, "No."

Collin McKee

Yeah, it's got to be more organic.

David Levine

It can be you reaching out, but you can't get five reviews the same day within an hour of each other. That's kind of goofy.

Collin McKee

Well, David, this has been very valuable. I really appreciate it. I'd like to ask three questions. You already answered the first, which is what's one thing a small business should do today: Google Business Review. That's perfect advice. Second, where do you think we'll see AI in small business? I usually say two years, but let's call it a year from now. Is it going to take over half the jobs small business owners have, or is it just going to force multiply? What do you think it's going to mean in a year's time?

David Levine

I know some people are going to be out of jobs because of AI, unfortunately. But I think for the small business owner, it will be a force multiplier if used correctly. Here's my big if: if they lean into AI so much that they lose the human edge and the human component, they're going to be out of business. Think back to 2008 when the market crashed. Who were the businesses that survived? The businesses that had good relationships with their customers and added value. So where do I see AI for the small business? As a force multiplier, to use your words. But more importantly, I see it as a tool that, when used correctly, will allow small business owners to finish tasks earlier, do whatever they're trying to do better and faster. And those that take the time saved and invest it into their customers are going to be the ones who are successful and grow.

Collin McKee

I couldn't agree more. So, last question: where can people find out more about David Levine, your book, and these tools?

David Levine

You can go to I Am Your Virtual Professional. I know it's a long URL, but you can go there and click the links to learn more about me. I'm going to send you a bunch of links that you could be so kind to put in the show notes, including my LinkedIn page. I'm happy to connect with anybody on LinkedIn. I'm happy to have a virtual coffee and see if it's a good fit, and if it's not a good fit, no problem. I'll send you a link to my book. At the end of the day, I'm happy to talk virtually with any organization and work with them on how to prompt better, how to save time, and how to get to VIVO instead of GIGO. I'm also willing to do customer experience training and help clients grow their experience. So please reach out. I'm happy to talk. I don't charge for that first half hour. And if it's not a good fit, I had somebody a couple of weeks ago I wasn't able to help, and I passed her along to a friend, and they're doing great business together.

Collin McKee

That's great. I applaud you. Here at Endeavors AI, we're doing much of the same. If you have any questions about your AI preparedness, where you are in the grand scheme of things, you can reach out at Endeavors AI. For Endeavors AI, I'm the founder, Collin McKee. This is David Levine, founder of I Am Your Virtual Professional. We thank you for listening, and we look forward to seeing you on the next one. Thanks, David.

David Levine

Thanks so much, Collin. I appreciate the opportunity. Have a great day.

Collin McKee

You too.